Curse

Ken Dei · May 04, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

To all the people saying "Just work harder and you'll get there"

SKILL-OVER-GRIND

People who play "hard" (many, many, many hours farming Faction) and people who play "better" (people who could school farmers in combat), should both have access.

I'm not sure how much clearer this point can be made. Or the fact that there is really no logical arguement against it.

Oh and yes, if we paid for it, we should be allowed access without having to change playstyle to much. To much being, switching from "small skilled group" to "mindless farming army." And that's a really an impervious truth too.

Sciros Darkblade · May 04, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoKi Foxfire

Man, a lot of people are going to hate us for controlling Cavalon it seems. :<

Not if you set precedent for a low price to access The Deep (those who get their arses handed to them might not pay anymore for a while, though, hehe, but they will also quiet down about not having access). Turn it into a UW with ROAR as Grenth's Avatar, so to speak. Your guildmates threw fees of 25-50k at us; that is restrictive and ultimately pointless. If you plan on holding the area for a while, that's something to consider ^_^

Of course you can keep it all to yourselves and farm Zodiac items to sell for 500k a piece. That's another option. It might make you unpopular, but hey, it's better to be feared than loved, as some say.

Gli · May 04, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

As far as the people complaining that Arenanet is forcing them to have a certain amount of players in their alliance, of course the teams with the max amount of players allowed will do better.

Why should I need to team up with more people than strictly necessary to field a single party? That's the way every instance of the game is played. It's the only level at which skill can be measured, the only level at which this game lets us really compete.

Stacking a huge obligatory metagame on top of it is just silly and discouraging. How people decide to deal with that tells you nothing about how intensely they play, how well they play. If there's only one way to really play the game (small parties in instanced gameplay) that's where their performance should be judged and that's what rewards should be based upon. Not based upon their willingness to play footsie with complete strangers.

Kakumei · May 04, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

The elite mission is a PvE reward for a PvP game mechanic.

Oh sup crux of the problem.

vtrajan · May 04, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Uhhhh.
I guess you all missed the missions called Amatz Basin and Zos Shivros Channel?
I think I completed it in about 10-15 minutes and got 1250 ish faction?
I did an alliance battle for about 25 minutes maybe more and got 753 faction.

Yes. I HAVE to grind SO MUCH in PvP for this PvE elite mission. Gosh. I just can't go to a cooperative PvE mission...

Maybe if you all want this so badly and obviously know how to make a better game than a.net, you can create an efficient working system with working server code and game code to adapt to what you want.

Macktar Wang · May 04, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Then it's a misunderstanding. The territory control system is strictly PvP. The charr don't hold any towns, you don't have to overtake the mursaat to take over House Zu Heltzer. If your stance is that you bought the game for PvE and don't care about the PvP side, then why would you be upset that you can't own a town (players vs. players). The elite mission is a PvE reward for a PvP game mechanic. So were crystalline sword drops in HoH - did you complain about that?

Actually, no I didn't. I don't care about Crystalline Swords, Chaos axes, or any other must-have skin. I use modded crafter weapons, and I do just fine. I swear I said it before, but I'll repeat it for you. I DON'T CARE ABOUT HOLDING A CITY. I just want access to the end-game material without bribing the holding alliance. Do I think we should have to pay to enter this area? Sure, why not. But I don't want to pay others. It's like rewarding them for being farmers. I thought Anet nerfed that once...

Loralai · May 04, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

The players who are powergaming PvE right now to take control of HZH are farming the PVE mission called amatz basin

Grinding has nothing to do with hard work in my opinion. I could sit here for 8 hours a day and farm faction too...but according to Anet's original conception of GW, "you'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played." You cannot possibly argue that faction farming takes a tremendous skill level or that it is not highly time-consuming. In essence, this means that A-net has completely went back on their word, and altered their vision of the game.

vtrajan · May 04, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

These elite missions have nothing to do with endgame content.

Urgoz's Warren content, storyline and questing/etc?
Kill Urgoz.

Press L. Highlight Mission Objective.

Kill Urgoz.

You are missing out on SO MUCH end game and necessary storyline content.

Dr Strangelove · May 04, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbspectre

and what's to stop them from charging huge amounts of gold?...there are no rules governing how they run "their" city...it leaves too much open for abuse...

Well, free market economics will stop them pretty effectively if they even chose to charge. If someone chose to charge, they would do it at a reasonable level for the same reason McDonald's doesn't sell 300 dollar hamburgers. Maybe a couple people would buy that expensive hamburger, but you make a lot more money if 1000 people buy a burger for a dollar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbspectre

i believe Gaile's already stated that there won't be any SF-type updates between now and Chapter 3....

Hmm.. I didn't see this but no major content updates for 6 months sounds kinda lame. Wonder what they're planning to do for the next 6 months? Sit around and count their cash?

Loralai · May 04, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

Uhhhh.
I guess you all missed the missions called Amatz Basin and Zos Shivros Channel?
I think I completed it in about 10-15 minutes and got 1250 ish faction?
I did an alliance battle for about 25 minutes maybe more and got 753 faction.

Yes. I HAVE to grind SO MUCH in PvP for this PvE elite mission. Gosh. I just can't go to a cooperative PvE mission...

Maybe if you all want this so badly and obviously know how to make a better game than a.net, you can create an efficient working system with working server code and game code to adapt to what you want.

Yeah maybe, but think of it in this perspective. How many players would have to farm those PvE challenges how many times each to even begin to acquire the necessary faction? That is the grind we are talking about, especially in relation to those alliances with lower numbers.

Jwh6913 · May 04, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifly

Let us say this again, its not how good you are, or how much you work, but how big your alliance is.

sounds like a good metaphor for something else

the said metaphor is also as flawed as the idea of being in 10*100, and 10,000 faction apeice, comes to an massive amount of faction farming.

just give us an different means of accessing the elite missions,

be it like a 12v12 pvp to gain entry for an set time period such as 12 hours for that specific alliance. 1 round wins entry

, thus perserving the whole, alliance concept and all.

after the said time limit is up, they'll have to pvp again, in an hard 12v12 round to reenter

unlimited alliances can enter.

OR we could do this, have the luxon or kurzick side dominate one city, and everybody on an faction's side will be able to enter once an alliance with an link to an specfic faction wins.

ANYTHING is better than faction farmimg!

Greedy Gus · May 04, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loralai

Grinding has nothing to do with hard work in my opinion. I could sit here for 8 hours a day and farm faction too...but according to Anet's original conception of GW, "you'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played." You cannot possibly argue that faction farming takes a tremendous skill level or that it is not highly time-consuming. In essence, this means that A-net has completely went back on their word, and altered their vision of the game.

I agree with that. I never said it wasn't a farming mechanic. It's been fairly obvious to everyone since the previews that you will hold towns by time spent farming faction than somehow showing off your amazing player skill. But that's the way it works. Since the game has come out, it seems that there is a clear split between people who recognized the game mechanics, put together their insane alliances, played to win, and are enjoying the spoils, and the people who immediately came to whine on the forums.

Maybe there is something to be said for complaining in hopes that Arenanet will listen and change things in the future, but I don't think they've shown a history for caring about complaints like this.

Stabber · May 04, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loralai

[A]ccording to Anet's original conception of GW, "you'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played." [...] A-net has completely went back on their word, and altered their vision of the game.

That is a paraphrase of the text on the retail box for the original Guild Wars.

I see no such statement on the retail box of Guild Wars Factions.

felinette · May 04, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyril Aspect

I was going to make an extremely long post talking about how easy it is to get access to elite missions just by asking,

But that beats the purpose, doesn't it?

They're not elite if all you have to do is ask.

Since I think elite missions were a dumb idea to begin with, I'd be cool with gaining access to them just by asking a member of the alliance, assuming they don't charge me any gold or require me to go in with a certain party.

Greedy Gus · May 04, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Hmm.. I didn't see this but no major content updates for 6 months sounds kinda lame. Wonder what they're planning to do for the next 6 months? Sit around and count their cash?

The arenanet development team that produced GW:F is about to begin working on chapter 4.

pbspectre · May 04, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Well, free market economics will stop them pretty effectively if they even chose to charge. If someone chose to charge, they would do it at a reasonable level for the same reason McDonald's doesn't sell 300 dollar hamburgers. Maybe a couple people would buy that expensive hamburger, but you make a lot more money if 1000 people buy a burger for a dollar.

so, when ppl stop paying to get in, the holders turn to farming the missions and make cash that way...by your line of thinking, 100 ppl paying 2k each to get in won't make as much cash as one person paying 500k for a weapon that only drops in the elite missions...

Loralai · May 04, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Maybe there is something to be said for complaining in hopes that Arenanet will listen and change things in the future, but I don't think they've shown a history for caring about complaints like this.

You are more than likely right, but I am one of those who feels the need to at least voice my discontent. I apologize if it offends anyone, but in a capitalist market, it's best to at least let the companies, corporations, etc..know what the varying views of their consumers are.

Quote:

That is a paraphrase of the text on the retail box for the original Guild Wars.

I see no such statement on the retail box of Guild Wars Factions.

I can't argue with you there either. You are absolutely correct. And for that mistake, I take full responsibility. Because they introduced the game to me with the Guild Wars name, and have been telling me for months that it would be in my best interest to merge and about how much more content and skills, etc.. I would have by doing so, I should have never assumed nor expected it to be anything at all like the original.

Family Draconis · May 04, 2006, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macktar Wang

I paid to play a PvE game that didn't involve direct competition with other gamers (or should I call them farmers).

Leave the competition to the PvP arenas and out of the PvE world.

I definately agree with this statement. The games PvE content should be accessable to anyone, not just those select few who qualify.

PvE and PvP should be separate entities.

And as for the economy, just dont purchase the elite items for rediculously high prices. You might want them, but I have a feeling that they will change the access to these missions in the future so dont freak out.

Cyril Aspect · May 04, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Not the point. Not the point at all.

then We have no point worth discussing, if being able to get into them isn't whats bothering you then as it seems you are just hating on other peoples playstyles in the guise of complaining about your own is not universally applicable.

some people oddly enough(I have no idea why) like grinding and farming.

it seems to me that what you are mad about Anet refusing to narrowly define PvE and instead of making a game that shows just yours they have made a game with a number of PvE formats some competitive some not,

Competition does not vanish when its only monsters. you wouldn't bring certain builds into certain places because your character wouldn't last against the mobs. thats you competing with the A.I.

EDIT- edited to make sentences suck less.

heaven · May 04, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

I am perfectly OK with current way of controlling elite missions if most players have an alternative. In Tyria, you can always do UW/FOW, Tomb and SF after you finish the game. In Cantha there is no such high end areas so elite missions are the only option, no alternative.

I dare to say that the popularity of GW is most likely due to UW/FOW, SF and Tomb (at least for 90% GW population). Anet reduces all these options into 2 elite missions (sort of Tomb). We want new realms of the gods like UW and FOW!

How about new realms for the other gods like Dwayna, Lyssa and Melandru that everyone was dreaming about? How about Dwayna's Flying Island, Lyssa's Underwater World and Melandru's Forbidden Jungle? GW Faction will be extremely popular because of all these high content and options.